Newcomers vs. Natives: Why so much tension?
Many times, readers write things to me I couldn’t have said better myself.
Today’s entry comes from Katie:
"So many times, your blog covers what I feel are pretty benign topics, yet near-Civil Wars will break out in your blog commenting area. Many a time it's turned a helpful discussion into a negative free-for-all. So, basically, what gives? Why do you think people feel compelled to hate on newcomers/natives alike?"
Here’s part of the reply I sent her:
"I think in general, people take advantage of the anonymity of blog comments to say things they would never say in polite company. Mine is certainly not the only blog where this happens. I also think that with the issue of newcomers in particular, there are a lot of tensions ‘under the surface’ in Charlotte as a result of tremendous change/growth we're undergoing. People don’t express those tensions in public because of our culture of ‘Southern politeness,’ so my blog becomes one of the few places where they can do that."
I try to be strict about deleting excessively rude, off-topic, obscene or potentially libelous comments, while still allowing for robust - even heated - debate at times.
So far, my most-commented blog entries have been: Where to get the best New York-style pizza in this region (Click here); whether the term "Yankee" is an insult (Click here); and my most recent topic, the tendency of Southerners to ask "Where do you go to church?" when meeting newcomers. (Click here).
If you still have comments on those three subjects, please, by all means follow my links to those entries and post there. For this entry, I’m interested in hearing your answer to Katie’s question: Why is so much tension between newcomers and natives expressed on this blog?
And what can we do to make things better?
Today’s entry comes from Katie:
"So many times, your blog covers what I feel are pretty benign topics, yet near-Civil Wars will break out in your blog commenting area. Many a time it's turned a helpful discussion into a negative free-for-all. So, basically, what gives? Why do you think people feel compelled to hate on newcomers/natives alike?"
Here’s part of the reply I sent her:
"I think in general, people take advantage of the anonymity of blog comments to say things they would never say in polite company. Mine is certainly not the only blog where this happens. I also think that with the issue of newcomers in particular, there are a lot of tensions ‘under the surface’ in Charlotte as a result of tremendous change/growth we're undergoing. People don’t express those tensions in public because of our culture of ‘Southern politeness,’ so my blog becomes one of the few places where they can do that."
I try to be strict about deleting excessively rude, off-topic, obscene or potentially libelous comments, while still allowing for robust - even heated - debate at times.
So far, my most-commented blog entries have been: Where to get the best New York-style pizza in this region (Click here); whether the term "Yankee" is an insult (Click here); and my most recent topic, the tendency of Southerners to ask "Where do you go to church?" when meeting newcomers. (Click here).
If you still have comments on those three subjects, please, by all means follow my links to those entries and post there. For this entry, I’m interested in hearing your answer to Katie’s question: Why is so much tension between newcomers and natives expressed on this blog?
And what can we do to make things better?
posted by Leigh at
8:04 AM
89 Comments:
Attention posters: Keep this polite! I've got a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it. --Your friendly blog administrator.
I believe people are afraid of change. Southerners are extremely proud of their heritage and fiercely protect their culture. But at the same time, they are not very open to change or diversity. Someone makes a suggestion on how things should be done down here, and Southern become VERY defensive and tell us Northerners to leave. How about listening someone out and try to see if there's any merit in their suggestion before dismissing it? I have plenty of native, Southern friends who have never left the South, have no intentions of leaving and the thought of living in or visiting a foreign land scares the beejesus out of them - kind of sad, really. On the flip side, non-Southerns are quick to judge and dismiss Southern culture as backward and qauint. How about you keep your suggestion on how things SHOULD be to yourself? If you don't like something, change it through your actions, not by insulting people. You're not in NY, CA, or wherever it is you hail - adapt/accept or shut up. I like to think of myself as a formerly Northern Southerner. I moved here 17 years ago and for many years talked trash about the South. The longer I live here and the more I get to know more about North Carolina I'm proud to say I consider Charlotte, NC home and wouldn't have it any other way. The South is changing - for the better IMHO - and we should embrace it instead of fight it.
I think the biggest problem is when the outsiders begin complaining about the city. The natives will certainly get offended, because this is the place they call home, as well as the place they love. Why move here and complain? Isn't it a more positive state of affairs when you move to a new place and look for the good, the new experiences, the new people, etc...?
I will be polite about this, and thanks for bringing this subject up. As a native Charlottean, my entire life has been altered forever by all the changes around me in and around Charlotte. People need to remember that when they arrive, they see Charlotte as what it is now. Well, I remember Charlotte as being totally different 30-40 years ago. Everything I grew up with as a child is GONE. Gone forever. And change is not always good. The east side of town used to be a great place to grow up, but no longer. Now it is just made fun of and dismissed as a crime-ridden slum. The truth is that Black, Hispanic and Asian gangs were allowed to overtake the east side of Charlotte, along with the viral-like influx of illegal immigrants. What has resulted is crime and more crime. So, that side of town was lost to me. Then the rest of Charlotte has been taken over by people from everywhere else, including California, Texas, etc. but mostly from up North. I don't blame people for moving here, but Charlotte is now a foreign city to me, and I grew up here! I am now the alien (native Charlottean) instead of the newcomers. I feel like an outcast and an outsider in my own native land! I never hear accents like my own. I very rarely meet other native Charlotteans. I am tired of reading about New Yorkers meeting up with each other in neighborhoods. If it is great for them to get together, why not Charlotte natives? Everyone I grew up and went to school with is gone. I am expected to feel good about this growth when I have none of my previous life left?? The new Charlotte sucks, in my opinion, and the "good old Charlotte" will never be the same again. The influx of people has taken away my way of life. Why shouldn't I be angry????
We have lived here for 9 yrs. and I truly call it home even though I not native to Charlotte. My husband and daughters moved here two months before I did and this still makes me chuckle. One of my children told me there were three malls here and much like Goldilocks, I would find only one to my suiting. The Eastland mall was for "thugs" so I wouldn't be comfortable there, Southpark was for rich snobs, so I sure wouldn't enjoy that place and Carolina Mall was just right. I was sure she was making that up, but upon my arrival and perusal of the three malls, agreed with her assessment completely!
We were a career navy family and had only "strangers" around us for 23 yrs. None of us were "native" to the cities we lived in, but helped to make everyone we met "family". What does it matter if YOU were born and raised here anyway? Life is about changes, either deal with it intelligently and with some degree of maturation or move to the country far removed from a "newbie" society that offends!
I think there is a lot of tension and most of it comes from the natives. They are probably deleted by now, but go back and look at all the other topics and you will see that most of the time, the first derogatory statement was made by a native. My parents grew up in Queens, NY, an established area, and guess what... pretty much everything from their childhood is gone too. Even the house my mother grew up was knocked down and gone forever. Where they grew up is nothing like it used to be and nobody speaks English. Change happens everywhere and it is just a part of life. You can remember the good old times but you can't live in the past either.
I think there is a lot of tension and most of it comes from the natives. They are probably deleted by now, but go back and look at all the other topics and you will see that most of the time, the first derogatory statement was made by a native. My parents grew up in Queens, NY, an established area, and guess what... pretty much everything from their childhood is gone too. Even the house my mother grew up was knocked down and gone forever. Where they grew up is nothing like it used to be and nobody speaks English. Change happens everywhere and it is just a part of life. You can remember the good old times but you can't live in the past either.
On the other hand, New York culture is centered around change and variety. Southern culture is not. For centuries this was basically a bi-cultural society (white and black) with only very occasional influxes of outsiders. There is a very rich, deeply-rooted cultural fabric here that is disappearing on an almost minute-by-minute basis. While most natives understand the positive benefits of growth and change, I find that very few newcomers attempt to understand what was demolished to make room for their new subdivision. Most of the bile from natives is a way of expressing frustration at seeing 500 years of cultural development steamrolled in a one-generation period.
I couldnt agree more with 9:29 above. Maybe in another 20-30 years the current newcomers will understand the tremendous sense of loss we natives now feel, if the influx continues at the current pace and if the influx comes from say Alabama, Ga, Miss, etc.
You know, many things have changed for the better. We now have more diversity in our schools, groceries, churches, and just about every aspect of life. And that part is great. I think the problem lies in the amount of overwhelming growth we have experienced in such a relatively short period of time, and the somewhat pervasive attitude of many transplanted Northerners that implies we are backward, uncouth, sheltered, and closed minded. I find it offensive that they get together with all of their Northern friends and insult everything about us: the way we speak, our road system, the way we drive, our traditions such as pulling over to the side of the road when a funeral procession goes by, our lack of delis, bakeries, the slower pace of our area, our penchant for asking the church question, the list goes on and on. Of course, not all Northerners are this way, but way too many of you are. How can anyone sit back and say we dont like change, are closed minded, and stuck in our old ways with all of this? And please dont think it hasnt escaped us that many Northerners have come here, profited greatly from us, and left many of us in worse states than before they came. Sometimes growth impacts certain segments of the population more negatively than others. Many people havent been able to participate in the economic surge and are left with higher taxes, higher grocery prices, higher home prices, etc. You all just need to remember it's not all about you.
I have lived here for 8 years. I'm a Yankee from PA...and no, I don't think the word Yankee is offensive! I have very, very rarely encountered any kind of meanness or rudeness from native Charlotteans. This may be because I don't complain about Charlotte or NC. I love it here, and it drives me insane when folks move down here and then complain. It's like, for pity's sake then GO HOME already if you don't like it!
I don't blame Southerners a bit for being offended by that. I also understand that my presence here has changed (possibly for the worse) their city and that they have every right to be upset about all of the changes. I think everyone has different desires - I guess New Yorkers want the place to be like New York (except warm) and natives want the place to be like it was before we all came. It's pretty hard to meet in the middle between the two.
I know I'll never truly understand Southern culture, but I'm always open to it. I like to learn about it and have enjoyed it when people have given me the chance to do so.
Two things I think most Southerners don't know about Northerners is that not all of us are from the city (I am definitely country) and that we're simply more private about religion because the religious differences are more varied/extreme/heated where we're from. Up North, religion tends to be a (major) point of division more than a point of connection. I've only heard that question once since I've been down here, though. I just answered the question honestly.
To 10:05:
You posted that nothing was the same about your old n'hood either and therefore we southerners need to just get used to it. Well, would you like to move back to your old n'hood where noone speaks English? We dont have another place to move to like you did where we can get real estate real cheap, a great job - paying better than most of the jobs the natives have. Where can we go, cash heavy from selling our home, buy much cheaper and get a great job? Look, we understand your perspective, why not try to understand ours? Thanks. Its not that you all arent welcome, as much as it is your failure to understand that we have our ways and would appreciate some respect from you all.
First, let's dissolve a couple of myths...
American people are pretty much the same everywhere. I left Charlotte and moved to Connecticut for a few years. I was surprised how many people up there were country music fans, NASACR fans, hunting and fishing fans, and other good ole boys I met up there. I swear I knew more up there than I know down here. Their accents may have been different, but their values and outlook on life were very similar to many natives down here. Many of them had never traveled beyond Pennsylvania, etc. either. I think many locals would be surprised to realize that once you get even less than an hour from NYC, Boston, Fairfield County, etc., there is a lot in common between all of us.
As far as crime and violence, it is much less so in the Northeast than it is down here. Compare stats in cities like Charlotte, Richmond, Atlanta, new Orleans, etc. to stats in Hartford, Boston, New Haven,, Providence, etc. and it's pretty clear where the problems are more significant. The North did not bring additional crime down here, it already existed.
People up North are also having to deal with change daily as well. Land that have not changed much since the 1700's are getting their share of subdivisions, malls, and other components of suburban sprawl as well. Change is a fact of life no matter where you live.
The one thing i can say about the South (where I moved back to and have live well over half my life) is that the change happening here is good. I have always thought that the people of the South should have the same economic and educational opportunities as people from points of higher latitudes. Sure some identity may be lost, but the benefits far outweigh any perceived romanticised version of the past somebody thinks the South had.
Danimal
Sometimes it seems like it comes down to the question: Immigration or invasion?
Either way, the old gets displaced. Just ask a Native American....
I'm a Charlotte native and I understand the angst of the natives, even if I do not share it. I'm thrilled with Charlotte's growth and change because the alternative, stagnation and reduced employment, is simply unacceptable to me.
Natives could be a little more welcoming and accepting of differences. Newcomers could be a little more accepting of differences, too, and maybe a little less condescending. After all, the natives laid the groundwork for a pretty good place, don't you think?
By the way, most Charlotte newcomers that I have met were warm, friendly, kind and interesting.
I have lived in the major cities on both coasts so maybe managing change is a little easier for me.
I am moving to the area from CA, and am looking forward to the change that comes with a new city - it's part of the adventure and discovery process. To date, everyone I have met has been wonderful. As others have written, nowhere are things the same - change is the one common denominator. I grew-up near San Francisco, but over the past 10 years, have rarely visited because it isn't the same as it use to be. Being angry with change is a waste of emotion and energy. I empathize with Charlotte natives and newcomers alike. These changes require sensitivity to others and acceptance of change and new ideas.
There are things I will miss about CA, but there are so many other great things that I am looking forward to which will soon minimalize the things I am leaving behind. After all - change keeps life intersting.
Southerners" want their CAKE and eat it too" You will never get progressive jobs without change in the current structure, Period!
The South disappeared when they knocked all the ANTEBELLUM Houses and store fronts down. Even Atlanta can pull itself off as a SOTHERN city better than Charlotte; why , I dont know.
signed OHIAN
What kind on City council and MAYOR do you want ? A MAYOR with a tee SHIRT AND A STRAW HAT WITH A PACK OF winstons ROLLED UP IN HIS TEE SHIRT; Do you want a MAYOR that wears a pair of suspenders holding up a pair of jeans and a "DUNLAP". This town needs to grow about %30 percent a year and if it doesnt more places will be like PHILLIP -MORRIS out the door they go.
More NATIVES need to tell People what they really feel and let it out , the hatred is mounting up; New Yorkers and OHIOains can take your anger we do this to ourselves all the time up NORTH.Most of us have noticed that SOUTHERNERs tell you what they think you want to hear; while Northerners just tell it like it is and in the South that is considered rude.Since the South has the BIBLE belt this may be the way of RELIGIOS agenda or " be seen and not heard".
Lets face it many Yankees have noticed that Southerners cant be seen with us to long or will be excommunicated by their JOBs, Churches or other social affairs; We know that many will ex- communicate you and we understand that the "Sword of the Civil war ran deep" Please meet with us in a secret place and tell us your fears and insecurities , we are great listeners also.
I just got back from Greensboro , NC and just loved it. I was in the Greensboro AREna WATCHING fAITH AND tIM CONCERT AND MAN DID THEY DO THE JOB. Greensboros People are very nice there , so if Yankkes want to see a nice town and have nice People , its Greensboro, N.C.
P.S. Charlotte used to be just like Greensboro at one time; My guess is that greed has taken Charlotte by the throat.
Thank you 12:22 for pointing that out.
Thaks also to General sherman, a true patriot who helped make it happen to keep our country unified.
I am a ative of Matthews and the number of people from Buffalo, Syracuse and New Hampshire is shocking. Now, a new company is trying to build a new retirement community in Matthews for us old folks and these newcomers are leading the charge against it. They want more homes with families and friends...I guess to get more people from up North to live in. In my opinion, all these people moving here has put elderly people on a corner shelf.
I am a 30 yr old native Charlottean also. I think that people who move here from large cities forget that we haven't always had traffic gridlock, smog, pollution, dirty street, corrupt government. It's hard to watch your high school fall to one of the worst in the state because big money from the North moves in and pushes the poor to the west side of town while they build mansions..and I do mean mansions..on the south side and tear down govt housing to make room for downtown development.
It's hard to understand why it takes me an hour to get to work when about 10 years ago the same drive would have been 15 minutes.
It's hard to watch the countryside disappear and be overtaken by Wal-Mart and fast food restaurants.
It's hard to understand why we need so many malls and neighborhoods and why they don't build neighborhoods like they used to. Where are the brick houses that an average middle class family can afford. Why so many cul-de-sacs?
There are good things like the Panthers and the endless array of restaurants and cultural activities that we have now but they've come at a very high price.
The only tensions I have seen/experienced have been here in the various comments sections of the Observer website.
To Ohioan 12;22
You seem to be pleased that the south has "disappeared". Why would anyone feel that way? I feel sorry for anyone that doesnt feel a heritage connection from their birthplace or hometown. And I am sorry to be losing mine to such unprecedented growth - it's not we dont want new people to come - its just that its so many of you we feel overrun and lost. If this happened to you I dont think it would make you feel good, either. As far as comparing us to Atlanta, please. Atlanta has been a large southern city since before the turn of the century. Charlotte has only begun getting national attention for the last 15-20 years or so. Unless you've lived here all your life, you really cant comprehend the staggering amount of change we've experienced and it would help ease tensions if more newcomers such as yourself would be a little more sensitive as well as informed before you go making blanket statements about which you know very little of personally.
Was it really all that great? When we look back, we all have fond memories of growing up in our "old neighborhood" In reality, it is not the old neighborhhod that we miss, it is our youth.
Don't bother responding to the Ohioan. He's just a troll looking for a fight, probably not even from Ohio.
Was it really all that great? When we look back, we all have fond memories of growing up in our "old neighborhood" In reality, it is not the old neighborhhod that we miss, it is our youth.
In most cities there is a vibrant native culture that local people enjoy being a part of. It's not just the loss of youth we're talking about.
Change -- good or bad? Regardless of one's opinion, change is real. An enlightening (frightening, scary, amazing, good???) picture of the reality of change can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbI-363A2Q. Check it out.
This tremendous growth is not just happening in Charlotte. It's happening across the Nation in different cities.
I used to leave in Northern Virginia. Right off of 95S, let me tell u. it was HELL. Living 28 miles from your job and it taking 1 1/2 to 2 hours one way to work.
Everywhere you turn, there is a new house or shopping center coming up. Paying $1,450 a month to rent a 3-bdrm townhouse. It is/was ridiculous.
My point is, NVA was not always like that. About 20 years ago I rented my first apartment for $450 a month. I could leave my house and be in DC within 20-30 minutes.
Change happens, it's a part of life.
I am happy here in Charlotte, and you won't hear this newcomer complain about anything. The only thing I miss about NVA is my family.
To Was It Really All that Great?:
Interesting question. You know, maybe it isnt all the actual physical growth, altho I certainly miss the countryside getting gobbled up. It isnt that, I suppose, as much as I feel like a minority in my own backyard. I feel my ways of speaking, and so much of what I do and have done all my life being ridiculed and looked down upon. Our backward way of life, our 2nd class schools, the food we prepare and eat in our home, the lack of "genuine delis and bakeries. We used to be able to laugh at ourselves, but now just feel defensive b/c we are looked down upon socially. Its rare I meet people from here anymore - its always "what state did you move from" instead of what county or n'hood. And even that would be fine too if I didnt feel that I am now a 2nd class citizen b/c I didnt sell a 1500 sf house for a half million and more, move down here and now live in Bal'tyne, RiverRun, Pennisula, etc. I truly dont mean to be insulting, but there is a feeling of what we learned in school called carpet bagging, and I think many people here feel that way. I loved it 15 years ago when I would meet someone from up North. It was great to compare ways of life, learn about new restaurants popping up. Now it's just overwhelming and sad.
BTW, Ohioan, dont know what you mean by "current structure". You all seem to be pretty much running things in the corporate world around here.
Oh I meant to add in my previous post, do you hear the violins playing in the background? Haha
I have some thoughts on this which I would like to put forward as a native of Charlotte who has been living in the Raleigh-Durham area for a number of years.
Both regions of North Carolina have an interesting blend of "native pride" with "newcomer energy." I don't know how it is in Charlotte now with folks who come to the Queen City from, say, the Northeast or the Midwest, but I remember the way it was when I was growing up in Charlotte in the 1950s and 1960s.
A business or professional person, an educator or journalist, a musician or visual artist, might have come to our city from Cleveland, Jersey City, Syracuse or Scranton, but by golly, once they had settled into the Charlotte scene and had become active in the commercial, cultural and sporting life of the city, they considered themselves "Charlotteans," make no mistake about it.
It didn't matter if it was Paul Buck, Al Manche, Al Rousso or whoever, their interest was in helping bring new leadership to this place called Charlotte. They may have been proud of their native hometown upbringings elsewhere, but they were now Charlotteans and wanted to be a part of helping the city grow and prosper, and that was all there was to it.
Here in the Triangle, although we have many ex-Northeasterners and ex-Midweterners who have enthusiastically adopted Raleigh, Durham or Chapel Hill as their new homes both residentially and occupationally, we still get the impression that some others among our newcomers are conditional North Carolinians, waiting to see how things are going to work out in the long run before they make a greater professional commitment or personal investment in the immmediate region.
So here in the Triangle, we hear a lot of "active comparisons" between life in Garner, Zebulon and Carrboro and say, life back in Eau Claire, Akron or Poughkeepsie. Thus it makes it a bit awkward to seek common ground on issues important to our future.
I've never known Charlotte to be anything except a city where folks are working and living there because they have chosen to make Charlotte their home base for this part of their lives. But I have been away a number of years, and maybe things aren't quite like that anymore.
So in summation, ladies and gentlemen of the neighborhoods, uptown dwellings and suburbs of Charlotte, I still believe that there is a two-part equation for attaining the balance in which everyone in the community feels more at home and more committed to the betterment of all of Charlotte:
1. Natives or long-time locals (such as I was when living there) always need to be ready to extend the hand of friendship and warm welcomes to all newcomers, regardless of where they have come from in this country or abroad to live and work in Charlotte. If they want to make Charlotte their home with a positive outlook, then you let them know they're welcome.
2. Then the newcomers to the Southern Piedmont region should emulate the great business, professional and arts pioneers in the Queen City of the '50s and '60s by letting everybody know for sure that pending some new move in the future to a new city or region of the country, you wish to be considered as full-fledged Charlotteans because you have made a decision to fully commit to the life of the city, no matter where you may have lived before.
With just a little bit of respect for this two-part equation, even an Einstein could feel right at home at Trade and Tryon.
I am a native Charlottean and I welcome new residents to the area. The only time I have a problem is when people move here and complain because some things are different.
Why do so many seem to think, that all Northerns that are moving to Charlotte, have sold their overpriced home, have tons of money, and are looking done on everyone else because they choose to live in Bal'tyne, Uptown etc.
Alot of the newer subdivisions & uptown condos look exactly like the homes & apartments that people are moving from.
Maybe it's just a personal choice that they want to live in a community that is in some ways familier.
Is sounds to me that some are letting their own insecurties, cloud their judgments against newcomers.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Just found the blog, and apologies for not reading the previous 38 entries before chiming in, but anyway...
The answer to your question is simple: The Observer (and those who read it) needs to quit stereotyping and playing on age-old, often inaccurate characterizations of people.
If we look for arguments, they aren't hard to find. I think newspapers believe the tension sells. What they fail to realize is that twice as many quit the paper because they're tired of reading it.
A PERSON WHO HAS TO READ THE PAPER EVERY DAY FOR MY JOB
I am a newcomer to Charlotte and I LOVE it here. Most people I have met along the way are friendly, helpful and seem content and happy with being in such a beautiful city. Most people will react to the cues you give them about yourself; if you are friendly and outgoing other people will react accordingly. Friendliness is contagious, just try it for a day and you will see for yourself. Frances Brame, Ballantyne area
The biggest disappointment I had when I moved here was discovering how much of the "native culture" had been trampled, torn down, and thrown by the wayside in the name of progress and growth. My heart hurt when I saw images of the old theater downtown being demolished the same month I moved here from Texas. I was looking forward to steeping myself in the southern experience, and it seems that Charlotte is trying to erase their past and culture. That's sad.
"Why do so many seem to think that all Northerners that are moving to Charlotte have sold their overpriced home, have tons of money and are looking down on everyone else?"
Being in the real estate industry in this area I can tell you from experience, its because to a significant extent it is true. Of course its not true with all who relocate, but very often it is. Many, many who come here are wonderful people. And many who come really do have a stereotypical view of the south, and it doesnt take long before they complain, complain, complain. And make fun. Too, I believe what may turn some southerners off is the aggressive attitude many Northerners display in their business dealings as well as their personal lives.
I don't think 'aggression' should be considered a turn off, at the same time 'aggression' is no excuse to be rude people.
People in the North move 100 miles hour, everyone is always rushing somewhere, things are hectic, all day everyday. So when they move somewhere with a different pace it can take an adjustment peroid to be able to slow down.
I'm from VA, my husband is from Brooklyn. When we first met I couldn't understand a thing he said because he talked so fast. If we were out casually walking in a store or somewhere I would have to almost jog to keep up with him. He didn't even notice he did those things, he had been walking and talking that way since he was a kid.
Now he has adjusted to the way I walk & talk, as I have with him.
Patience is the key!
I've live in NC all my life and moved to Charlotte in 1978 about the time Gold Bond and other companies moved here. We welcome new culture and almost got used to people telling us we didn't how how to drive in snow--I even hitched a ride with several of those drivers--However, that was almost 30 years ago. Why are we still talking about this? It's like the Observer is trying to create the issue when there is none. Please move on.
David McKnight very eloquent post. I do agree that in the 1950's and 1960's newcomers to the Queen City would "immerse" themselves much more than they do now. And they would be proud to be called a Charlottean and a Southerner. Whereas now, it is the opposite, people want Charlotte to be a Xerox of where they came from. And the Charlottean establishment is not so quick to embrace the newcommers as they did in the 1950's and 1960's. So both sides are quick to not like each other.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
I'm a native of England and moved here to Huntersville (by choice) from the San Francisco Bay Area after ten years.
I have been here for two years - no-one has asked me "What church I go to"
I live in a lovely community and don't go to church as I am an atheist and more of the George Carlin "belief" - My wife and Mom in Law go to Church each week as do my neighbors.
I don't and keep my opinions to myself.
Live and let live - believe in what you believe in and don't hurt or offend others.
It's lovely living in this area and we are not moving!
To the unhappy people just go back wherever your happy life was before.
Even Rodney King had it right "Why can't we all just get along?"
David
If these newcomers would simply visit the DMV and obtain NC plates, my commute would at least reassure me that I am still in NC, not NY, NJ or OH. Are they too financially wiped out from the move to pay the fee or still clinging to the motherland left behind? We get it....the NY Yankees are the best baseball team, Syracuse rocks and Boston finally won the world series. Please assimilate a little faster and you just might feel welcomed. I'm curious...how many of us are moving up there? Seems like we have what they want...not the other way around.
The Observer loves kicking this kind of stuff up. Just think, if this column were done away with, Leigh Dyer might have to do a real job.
Anon 5:06,
Get a life! I live in VA, there are about as many 'First in Flight' tags on the road here as there are VA tags. Not to mention tags from every other state in this country.
It's not my business, that's between the Driver and the State of VA.
It's not my business, that's between the Driver and the State of VA.
Correction: the Commonwealth of VA
I will go to church when the CATHOLIC preists leave little children alone and when Baptists ministers stop picking up prostitutes and Islamic clerics speak out against the radicalism of ISLAM ; STOP THE RELIGIOUS HATRED People stop thinking you ll be in a higher place than your neighbor.
Churches are full of HYPOCRITES that need help I am perfect and will straight to Heaven on my day .
the OBSERVER may be the MOUTH PEICE of HATE GROUPS in town who knows they like to stir the pot often. Kepp People fighting and they wont notice the misprints .
Charlotte is a city rich in history. Our family moved here from Boston six moths ago. At first I loved the city, but as I tried to find an arts related job it became very closed. People are nice on the exterior here-where in Boston they are sincere. My experiences have led me to believe that this city is insincere and exclusive in many ways.
Being a New Englander is very different in many ways. One we are outspoken and assertive-this does not work here in the South. One thing I never do is tell people how they should have-could have- would have. I just go and do it myself and this is when the road blocks go up. There is nothing but walls when it comes to fresh innovative ideas about how the arts are used to create community. Now that is exclusive!
I find that bold progressive ideas that cause positive transformation are not accepted. And oh my –there are no social programs that integrate the arts into other disciplines. To top it off-all I hear are complaints about how artists and art group have to leave this place because of the lack of support! My husband will stay and work here while I am going home to teach at Boston University-There are NO jobs here for artists-there is NO place here for the arts. It is truly sad.
Now that felt good!
I came here looking forward to exploring Southern culture -only to find most of it gone. I came here eager to learn about the rich history of Charlotte-only to find most of it taken away by money hungry developers. I came here wanting to be surrounded in this city's Southern charm-only to find its look at me I'm from somewhere else that is better attitude. I am truely morn this city's loss.I understand your anger-
I just got back from Laffeyette, Baton Rougem New Orlean Bouloxi , Miss. and ALAMBAMA and loved it ; People there speak their mind and it is much more layed back and freindly. I visited the New HYUNDAI plant in Montgomery and they now have three other car plants. As more business leaves here nore serious business is ending up in the deep South. Charlotte is okay if you have A] Retirement, B] your rich and dont have to work but all in between you could be out in the woods livng because of dwindling jobs here.
Charlotte has become distrustful of all YANKEES and they are the only ones telling the truth about all this here; People from BOSTON I admire your evaluation of this city and stand with you. Southerners better beware their town is folding up with high crime, gang warfare and wearing ROSY GLASSES about all of it.
LIEGH DYER is in DENIAL about all the bad things that outwieghing the good here; Soon Housing will drop by %50 percent evaluation and then the real problems begin. Most houses here are %30 percent higher than they are worth anyway because of greedy builders who know YANKEES will pay anything for a plot of land.
People you should look at Bioloxi, Miss and the ALABAMA and Loiusiana area if you want the real SOUTH; those People have real Southern Hospitality and its the real SOUTH not this make shift South with no dixie land jazz in the Downtown, no choirs singing just Bums strolling around looking for People to scam.
The Charlotte Observer is getting torn down anyway ; they cant sell Newspapers anymore and the Building is falling down. I heard McClatchy wants out of the OBserver and they are selling the land where the OBSERVER sits.
Why does the Observer even have this column? Are you trying to get controversy to sell papers?
How sad and silly.
To Anonymous going back to Boston..don't let the screen door hit you on the way out, ya'll hear?
Car manufacturing is not "serious" business. The U.S. switched to a service economy 30 years ago.
It isn't change that we're afraid of, it's that we happen to have loved the south the way it was. We like our Towns, you want to bring your "Villages". You jam up our streets and roads with your traffic then tell us how you need to be in charge of everything because we certainly haven't done a good job of planning. You have your cutesy sayings, "We want tableclothes" when you let us know our restaurants aren't good enough for you, and you want LBTD everywhere because you're used to a Bar on every corner. Well, this wasn't the Biblebelt, it still is the Biblebelt, and if someone hasn't asked you where you go to church, they're falling down on the job. If it makes you uncomfortable to talk about "religion",you should give that some thought. Christ said if you're ashamed of me, I'll be ashamed of you. Besides most of us aren't into religion, it's a relationship with Christ to us, and we're not always perfect but we're forgiven. It's just this little attitude that 90% of yankee's seem to have, that they feel they're just a wee bit better than the natives, and we should be down on our knees that they are bringing civilization to us. I happen to have been married to a yankee for 33 years, but he came South because he wanted what we had, not because he thought he was sent to save the natives and even after being in the South for forty four years he hasn't lost his ability to recognize a yankee attitude when he sees one.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Most Yankees have thrown in the towel and have created our own clubs and Social organizations; We have come to the conclusion we are not included down here so like NEW YORK during the Great Depression , we will create our own neighborhoods . P.S. if any Southerners wants to defect to the our side and not be alienated thats fine, we treat everybody with dignity.
Maybe Southerners should leave town ? Really what I see is the inability to adapt to change; Who would listen to and take serious a third rate NEWSPAPER and depend on its finding anyway; I heard the OBSERVER has %38 percent readership , so no one knows what day it is anyway here. No one would know if Im BIN LADEN E-mailing from the Middle east getting my two cents in. If the Reporters were great this Paper would be called the "Washington Post".
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
I lived in Charlotte for 7 years and I know the growth is/ has been tremendous. I'm in Raleigh now and we suffer a similar conflict...
I just defended Charlotte (A little off topic) when someone said Charlotte was less southern than Raleigh. Read Raleigh Philosophical Society here
FYI- Like Lewis Grizzard said "If you don't like the paper, hey, it only costs a quarter."
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Maybe Southerners are just self centered and dont want to share their land . Maybe, They are SEPARATISTS by nature , nothing wrong with that, ETHNOcentrism is desired by all cultures. I just got back from ALABAMA, Missisippi, Loiusiana and they were OKAY with Yankees ; Alabama just got their fourth car plant and doing well. MOBIL,Alabama is getting a 'LOWES MOTOR speedway size' NASCAR track
I was at the TIM McCraw/ Faith concert in Greensboro and the Southerners there were nice to this YANKEE.
I was born at Presby and have lived within an hour of Charlotte my entire life. I have lots of friends that are from Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburg, and Greenbay. I was nice to them when we met and they were nice to me. My problem is the complaining and people making fun of my southern drawl. Don't come here, buy a house three times the size of the one you had, bringing your big paychecks with you and complain about the south. You moved here for a reason. If you don't like it move away! If you don't want to move away, shut up!! I know a family that moved herer from New York, brining their big paycheck with them. Then Hubby gets laid off and he can't find a job down here to pay the bills. He had to move back to New York for about a year and stay in a little apartment then was able to get transfered back down here with his family so they could keep their big house and new cars. I don't mind you doing it, just don't complain about the choice you made. Also, stop making fun of the way southerners speak or act. To me you sound funny, I just don't try to make you feel bad about it!
I have a big problem with the viewpoint that one is not allowed to complain and that they should leave "if they don't like it" There is always room for improvement and without complaints, things will never change for the better. No city is perfect and there is always room for improvement everywhere. It is part of good citizenship to identify area flaws as this will lead to the election of officials who will improve it - at least we hope. Some time ago, some people complained about the lack of greenways for running and biking. Now we have them.
I am an NC native, moving back from living in the Northeast. What I am hoping to find is the politeness and manners which the north does, indeed, lack. I was picked on for my accent when I moved north so badly, I even worked hard to lose it.
I think that people moving in need to quit trying to force their desired, known, culture on the Southern culture. That's how I see it. It is not "change" that people are kicking back against so much as it is being under the impression that the newcomers APPEAR to have an attitude that their way is the better way, period. When I was in the NE, I adapted. I didn't expect people I lived around to start liking grits and saying y'all.
No, not all newcomers are like that. Still, there truly is a sense of arrogance surrounding NYC that that way is THE way. As much as folks comment that "we" (NC'ers) need to be open to listen and change, newcomers also need to listen, and be willing to accept our ways of doing things, and that maybe we won't change, and we are really okay with that.
It's the whole assimilation argument. I don't want to start speaking Spanish because it makes it easier for the illegals around here. No, they should learn English. They are the ones who moved here, not vice versa. If I moved to Latin America, I would not expect them to adapt to me.
After reading all these comments, I am concerned that folks are not willing to blend, but to create enclaves. That's too bad. Hopefully, it's just the few posters here, not the majority of people.
Add to that we are a family coming from an area that has very low housing, so can't cash out like so much of NY/NJ/CA. So, no, not all of us have dough.
Oh my gosh, I'm a northerner who moved to a small town in Florida called Saint cloud. My friend moved to Huntersville from Long Island NY. Florida became unaffordable, did you know our taxes are close to 2%? I am moving to North Carolina because I cannot afford to pay my bills on my 199,000 Hous with taxes of $,4,000 a year and homeowners insurance of $1,100 a year.
I don't want a larger home, I want something that is less money with lower taxes.
I originally moved from NY because I could not purchase a home and no one spoke english. As it turned out, very few people speak english in florida. I don't go to church. I would hate to think I'm not accepted because I'm diverse, although not rude. I like that the south is not in a rush. i think the only thing I miss about NY is the food and the culture/entertainment, other than that I like the south and the southerners better.
I would hope that opportunity and bakeries and increased culture that, that developement will not equal nastiness and not cut into the southern way of life. We may be different but still very nice, I promise.
12:30 PM is so right, Natives are polite to your face & tell you exactly what they think you want to hear but will stab you in the back the second you turn around.
Some may consider us New Yorkers/Northerners rude, but at least we tell it like it is. If we don't like you we'll be honest & tell you so. When Natives don't like you, they just pretend to & say something like "y'all come back soon now, ya hear."
Can't stand the phoniness.
12:30 PM
I'm sick of Natives thinking that everyone from NY/NJ is loaded(like 11:11 AM above). We came here because we couldn't afford our ridiculous rent anymore in Queens, NY. We didn't have a million dollar house to sell or anything else for that matter!
Barely Scraping By - from NY
11:11 AM
Karina's right - there's nothing wrong with complaining if it opens up people's eyes & leads to change for the better.
How would anything ever get better in this world if we all just accepted things the way they are?
It's not-unamerican or un-charlottean to complain. It's what makes this country great - being able to open your eyes to new ideas & voting to improve things!
Proud Yankee
Exactly like karina said constructive critism is a good thing. Mean-spirited comments that go no-where are redundent, but when people can look at a flaw and try to be pro-active and try to make it better than regardless of the dixie versus yankee scenario.
I could not agree more. As a native Charlottean who LOVES to travel and absorb the uniqueness of other locations, I do not understand the driving need of anyone to move here (or anywhere) and then constantly.complain about how bad everything is. Why did they move here? Go ahead and move somewhere else or start some new trends without bashing all of the old. When I was a kid, I never had bagels. Bagels were introduced as more people moved.in and they became popular. I love bagels. I had Chicago deep dish pizza in Chicago and fell in love. We have none in Charlotte but I keep looking and hoping. Why can't we embrace the diversity of changes and also appreciate all the good things that are already here. I appreciate your comments. I get so tired of people from other places spouting their superiority and tearing down the place they willingly moved to. Good post!
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home